Radical Emergence Podcast
Radical Emergence Podcast is a project consisting of 26 episodes exploring transformation on all levels of reality— personal, social, and ecological.
Radical Emergence Podcast
The Fractal Nature of Identity and Transformation
In this episode Dr. Sally and Dr. Jen explore the fractal nature of identity and transformation in a wide-ranging discussion.
S1:E3: The Fractal Nature of Identity and Transformation
[00:34] Intro
[03:36] Sally shares that transformation is entered through different portals, like pain and joy, or through an understanding of identity. Knowing who we are can alleviate some of our suffering, as meanings, sense of purpose and inspiration fall into place. Identity is bigger than our roles, our gender, our profession. Sally explains three fractal, nested patterns of identity at different scales 1) the evolutionary scale, 2) the fetal scale, and 3) human development scale - from birth to death. These 3 scales are actually a false division. Development is a continual process of transformation. Sally explores the first cosmic unfolding of who we are, from the elements of the periodic table, to the biosphere/human life, to the noosphere/culture. She mentions process theology, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and Alfred North Whitehead, the movement from Mud to Madame Curie, from cosmic chaos to Frieda Kalo, from a ‘quantum field’ to ‘quantum theory’, described by Albert Einstein, David Bohm and other great physicists
[15:17] Jen agrees that this process feels miraculous. She expands by saying we all have two worlds- our inner world (of values, beliefs, our conscious and unconscious thoughts, our dreams, feelings and our experiences) and our outer world (of people, work, animals, and our Earth home). Our inner world is a microcosm of the microcosm, and we are interwoven with our outer world. This relationship is reflected by the Chinese Yin-Yang pattern, and the Hindu symbol of the Sri Yantra made of nine interlocking triangles. Sacred geometry is the study of those underlying patterns or fractal connections. We are a continuous unfolding pattern, everything from nature, to DNA, to spiralling galaxies. As above, so below, as within, so without, described in the Emerald Tablet, that goes back to the late 8th century. How we see the world is how we see ourselves. Non-dualism is a premise that our inner world and our outer world are actually one. Advaita means ‘not two’ - our fundamental reality as Oneness, as pure awareness, described in Vedanta and Buddhism, an idea of interconnectedness also expressed in Taoism, Christian mysticism, the Jewish Kabbalah, throughout Western philosophical traditions, in New Age thinking, quantum theory. Science now supports what philosophers and spiritual traditions have been saying. Alan Watt famously said that duality is always secretly unity. We move as and within a holonic, holographic field of transformation. Jen then quotes Leonard Cohen, and his song called ‘Anthem’.
[21:36] Sally suggests every culture on the planet has felt into this reality of the ‘nondual’, as a substrate that inter-includes ‘duality’. This beautiful theory of sacred pairs arose in China as the Tao, and in India as Tantra. The Tao says that everything starts off in the void, which is characterized as the feminine. So the Chinese believe that the masculine emerges from the feminine, and that this is how manifestation came into reality through a birthing process. Sally then describes this as a literal pattern in the womb too – of ‘ontogeny recapitulating phylogeny’ (Ernst Haeckel) - in the nine months of fetal gestation, which reiterates the 13.8 billion years of evolution. Sally describes how we are all conceived in a moment of orgasm, like the big bang, which united 23 pairs of chromosomes from each parent, into a zygote. All embryos start life as female, but one pair of chromosones determines our gender later on, either as an XX and an XY. The Chinese were right in their pre-scientifc intuition several thousand years ago that the feminine is antecedent to the masculine. Sally describes the exact process of this transition in the genital and breast area of the male embryo, as the Y chromosome is activated, as the emergence of the masculine. And as we become older, we become switched on to certain other capacities too. So this is part of this fractal nature of how we move transform form nothing to something, and emerge with more and more capacity. And we would call that the masculine. The yin, which remains, and the yang, are then complementary. So this ancient spiritual archetype is revealed in the uterus. Sally then describes the history of our biological unfolding through evolution that is also re-iterated in the fetus, with vestigial tails and flippers. This understanding of the fractal nature of development gave Sally much meaning and purpose. Understanding identity as a fractal pattern of the whole unfolding of evolution means thinking we are ‘separate’ beings is therefore a false division.
[31:53] Jen suggests an interesting way to look at this relationship between inner and outer as a theory of resonance. Resonance is the transfer of energy between people, places and things. When two tuning forks are struck together, they will harmonize at the same frequency. When you listen to a piece of music that is very emotional, the resonance of the music stirs your soul. When someone is in a bad mood and we're suddenly also in a bad mood we are resonating. Jen describes Rupert Sheldrake's idea of morphic resonance and says these are evident with companion animals. Behavioural psychologists, and certainly Pavlov, would say that the dog is just conditioned to spot cues and then react to that conditioning. But along with that, there's a field of experiencing in which information is being shared and there is resonance happening. She asks “what's the boundary between inner and outer? Where do I begin and where does my dog end in that field that we are sharing?” And yet we both have our individual experiences. She quotes Ken Wilber who said that boundary lines are never found in the real world itself, but only in the imagination of the map maker. She asks, “how do I become a conscious map maker? How can I leverage my imagination to participate in these fields of resonance in ways that are less harmful, more loving, more productive, both to myself and to the collective simultaneously?” We need new ways of relating inwardly so that we can change how we relate outwardly for sustainable behaviour. Jen describes why she went Vegan once she understood suffering and economics.
[38:38] Sally agrees that how we live our lives reflects who we believe we are. She makes a distinction between our conditioning and who we really are. Our real identity is much bigger than just being a nine to fiver, eating whatever we want, doing what we want to do, without really considering the big picture impact. Sally grounds this in a discussion of the third fractal – of adult life – when we take on all sorts of conditioning, and live out our various true or false beliefs, from birth to death. Sally describes how our interest in human development is only about a 100 years old. Before Darwin, and Piaget, Victorians believed kids were small failed adults. Later, we realized we share some common unfoldings like the journey in the uterus, but that we're also all unique after birth. Both nurture and nature make us diverse individuals. Our context and our DNA both mutate. We are born, start breathing air, scream, and start unfolding in this field of resonance. Recently Claire Graves, Don Beck and others have mapped several ‘value stages’ that unfold right through to old age. Sally asks “When do we actually become an adult?” She describes several legal definitions, at 16, 18, and 21. Yet maturation never stops until we start to decline and return to the void, to the ever-present Yin state. Our capacity is like a wave peaking at midlife in some ways and later in others. The next episodes will look at thinkers like Robert Keegan, Howard Gardner, Ken Wilber, Claire Graves and Don Beck, who've mapped this part of our three-part fractal pattern. Most of us never reach our full potentials without the time, energy, or resources.
[47:44] Jen says one of her teachers, Joanna Macy, says, “the self is a metaphor. We can decide to limit it to our skin, our person, our family, our organization, or our species”. Macy says, “do not think that to broaden the construct of self in this way involves an eclipse of one's distinctiveness. Do not think you will lose your identity like a drop in the ocean … You become more yourself. Integration and differentiation go hand in hand.” We are very much unique individual people, an unrepeatable pattern and expression of the universe, and at the same time, we are an expression of consciousness. We are ‘consciousness aware of itself’, and we can attune to this, when we are meditating or doing self- inquiry. So we are not one or the other. We are both. We are individuals and the collective simultaneously. It’s a paradox, which will keep showing up through future episodes.
[51:41] Sally agrees the best paradox metaphor is always the yin-yang, the inter-included duality and non duality. It's our job to express that unique potential if we can, and yet we have the shared history, the same elements, the same field, the same ever present origins, as Jean Gebser called it. To manage and express that is our journey. Understanding it at deeper and deeper scales as a fractal identity, a holographic reality, is what we begin to discern as we mature.
[53:53] We welome comments, feedback, stories that we might share. Outro.